Glorious actor and human August Forman shares stories about their transition and how they've navigated being an actor while on this incredibly vulnerable and personal journey.
01/13/2022
Big Bones, Thick Skin
Episode 4 - August Forman
August Forman (they/them) is a trans, non-binary actor who shares stories about navigating transitional life and how it has affected (or not) their experiences as an actor. In this conversation - one of the most joyful I've had - August talks about Safe Trans Travel (a charity that they started to help fund safe transportation options for trans people), Work in Progress, their experiences prior to and after transitioning, the support from their talent agents, and their choice to be an educator on what it means to be trans and non-binary.
Calls to Action:
Safe Trans Travel:
Instagram: @safetranstravel
Brace Space Alliance:
bravespacealliance.org
Edited by Amelia Driscoll at Summit Podcasting - https://summitpodcasting.com/
Music by Eric Backus - https://www.ericbackus.com/
Artwork by Meredith Montgomery - https://www.meredithmontgomery.design/
Hi. Welcome to Big Bones, Thick Skin - the podcast that talks to marginalized actors about their experiences in the entertainment industry. I'm your host Claire Alpern. This podcast is near and dear to my heart because I am a plus-size actress and I've had to navigate a very specific journey in the acting world.
Here I'll be holding space and having conversations with other plus-size actors, as well as those who identify as trans, Black, Asian American, queer, gender non-conforming, tall, short, old, young, and more - to tell their stories and share their feelings of being miss- or under-represented in entertainment.
We want it to change. We want to see everyone represented, but we need to talk about it first. And this is the first step in doing so. Welcome to Big Bones, Thick Skin.
It's our responsibility to acknowledge that the land where we live and produce is occupied land. Chicago, Illinois is the territory of the Potawatomi, the Kickapoo, the Miami, and the Peoria peoples. We pay our respects to elders both past and present.
Claire: I can't emphasize enough how grateful I am to have been able to talk with my next guest. They are a trans, non-binary actor; pronouns are they/them/theirs. And they have also taken up the mantle to help educate about what trans and non-binary means.
They and I are both part of the Chicago acting community. We have many mutual friends, but we've never actually spoken until this interview. Coming away from it, I feel like they're a beautiful example of what a glorious human being can be if given the space to be so. I had a wonderful, enlightening time talking with them. And I'm so honored that they shared this space with me. Please take a listen and enjoy my conversation with August Forman.
Claire: So August. The other reason - and I told you this before - the other reason why I have such admiration for you is because my son's name is August.
August: It's such a good name. I chose it myself.
Claire: Did ya? What made you choose it?
August: Well, it's funny. So I was really struggling to come up with names. My dead name just - I bear no ill will towards my dead name, but it just, it never felt like me. And it is a very feminine name. And so I knew I needed a different name and I ended up having two different names chosen and August was not one of them.
Claire: Oh really?
August: Yeah. And then I was doing research on how trans people pick their names. And one of the things that popped up was something called the mirror test.
Claire: Ooh.
August: Where you stand in front of a mirror and you say the name and you watch the way your body reacts to it. And so I was certain, I was actually, I was between the name Finn and I was between the name Anderson.
Claire: Ooh.
August: And I was like, those are both great names. And I realized, I had never said them out loud to myself. I had just thought them in my brain. So I stood in front of the mirror. I said, both. None of them sparked joy. I was like, oh no. And at the time I was working in a school at the time, I worked at Bernard Zell for about five years. And one of my favorite things to do was do the read aloud and we were reading the book Wonder. I love Wonder.
So the main character, Auggie Pullman, August. So as I was standing in front of the mirror, the name August popped into my head and I said it, and I'm not kidding. I lit up, my eyes started to water and I was like, holy cow, I'm August. And it was such a beautiful moment because the name had never, I'd never thought of that name before.
And it was so perfect. It was not male. It was not female. It was just such a beautiful name. And it's funny cause I'll get into Ubers and stuff and they'll be like, make jokes about where you're born in August. Oh your parents, what a great name. I'm like, yes, my mom chose my name. And on the inside I'm like, I chose it. I chose it, but we're not going to have that discussion.
Claire: It was chosen.
August: It was chosen well.
Claire: For me. Gosh, I can't imagine. First just to make sure that I'm clear, and please correct me if I'm wrong. You identify as trans, non-binary. Great. And and this is something that there's not a one size fits all thing. So I think, and I think that might be, why some people struggle with these new - and I really even want to call them categories, because they're not necessarily new. They've just never been named and it's never been safe enough to -
August: Exactly.
Claire: To do that. I was actually over the weekend, my son celebrated his ninth birthday, and my brother-in-law's former partner was there, and they identify as non-binary and as they/them -
August: We're everywhere.
Claire: Which I love! And I was saying that to them, I was like, it's so incredible to me how the buffet table is so much larger and varied.
August: And it was always there. It was always there. It's just whether or not it was safe, right. Safety is an issue. But also - something I say often is you can't know what you don't know. That's one of the biggest things I teach kids, right? They'll say someone's stupid for not knowing two plus two. I'm like, you're not stupid. You just never learned that. And it's the same with identities, right? I grew up so uncomfortable in my body, so confused, but not understanding who I was, because I knew I didn't identify as a man. So I was like, I'm not I'm not trans I think. And it wasn't until I moved to Chicago in 2014 where I met my first non-binary person and all of a sudden it clicked, all of a sudden this identity that I had no idea was possible. I learned and I was like, that's me. So all of a sudden people are learning like, oh, I don't have to be this. And I don't have to be that. This does exist. We just haven't thought about it.
Claire: And it, I just, I think it's really, I just love the variety, for lack of a better word. I really, I just think it's just, again, such a fascinating part of human beings and human nature that we really don't - we don't know what we don't know. Exactly what you said. And that doesn't mean even if you don't understand it, you can still respect it.
August: Exactly.
Claire: And that could also, that could be applied to any number of things, in today's day and age, like Black Lives Matter. A lot of people are like, I just don't understand. Okay, you don't have to understand.
August: You don't have to understand it.
Claire: You don't have to understand it. And if you don't understand it, A) you have to respect it, and B) educate yourself. Try to understand it. Don't say I don't understand it, therefore it doesn't...
August: When I came out to my, when I came out to my mom as trans non binary, she was - so she's perfect. She's a wonderful mom. I was so panicked. I texted her. I was like, oh, I'm trans non binary, blah, blah, blah. And I knew in my brain, she had never heard of the word non-binary before. I threw my phone after, panicked. But she accepted first and then researched, right? Cause she's like, this is my child. I love my child. Whatever you say you are. I love you. She knew she didn't understand it. So she learned, but she didn't come at me, saying that's not a real thing. She educated herself. I wish everyone would just do that.
Claire: It doesn't have to be your son or daughter or anything else for you to take that time. It's just common courtesy. It's just compassion. It's just uplift. It's just I would much rather love everybody than hate everybody. Cuz I'm perfect, clearly. I just, it just, it boggles my mind when, and again, I think that also, I need to educate myself on people who don't want to educate themselves and try to understand where that's coming from, because I think there needs to be some compassion there too.
August: Absolutely.
Claire: Let's just start saying yes. Okay. Whatever, whatever you say. Now, let me just figure that out, what that means. And if you want to help me figure that out, that's great. But the responsibility is not on you. There's so many resources out there. And there's so many new things constantly coming up with information. And I commend you for, loving yourself enough to be yourself
August: And it took time, but yeah.
Claire: How long did it take, do you think?
August: Oh boy, there was a good chunk of my life where I just didn't care about myself. I was drinking in excess. I couldn't sit alone in silence.
Claire: That's a big one.
August: Yeah. I just couldn't sit with my own thoughts because I was so uncomfortable with myself. I'll share this story. So I had top surgery two years ago, almost exactly two years ago, March 20th. And it was shortly after I got surgery. I was living right next to a Whole Foods and I needed to go grocery shopping. So I went to the store, I got groceries. I was walking across the street, back to my house and a car almost hit me and I jumped back and I thought, holy cow, that almost killed me. I don't want to die. And I realized in that moment, that was the first moment in my life. Up until that point that I realized I wanted to be alive. And it brought up all these feelings of just sadness for, I think it was, the first 29 years of my life where I didn't care enough about myself to care if I was alive or not.
And that was such a big moment just standing on the street, realizing for the first time in my life, I was in a place where I wanted to be alive, where I was happy. And so it was, yeah, a good 29 years of my life before I realized who I was before I started seeing a therapist. Being able to say, yeah, I finally went to therapy. Because again my mom is wonderful, but I grew up in a small town where we were. Talk about anything embarrassing. We didn't want anyone to look at us. We were quiet. We did not draw attention to ourselves. You did not go to therapy unless something horrific happened to you, whatever horrific is.
Claire: Or crazy. You're crazy.
August: You're crazy. Even, yeah. Even now I'll talk to my mom about going to therapy because she has undergone some very big trauma in her life, but she doesn't see that she doesn't see it as trauma. She doesn't see the things that she has been through and they are big things, but she's no, there's nothing bad happened to me.
Claire: Oh, wow.
August: And so growing up like that really I think have affected my sense of self-worth. So yeah, I would say 29, I started seeing a therapist. I came out as trans non binary changed my pronouns. My name. And that was the first time in my life where I was like, I'm a human being like a human being.
Claire: Wow. Wow. That's a long time to go. Not feeling that way.
August: Yeah. Yeah. And I went through after realizing that I went through a period of just sadness for myself and my younger self and just being like, how sad was your life? Almost mourning that, that child version of me, growing up the way that they did. But yeah, I'm in such a good place now. And I'm grateful. I finally made it.
Claire: Oh, for sure. Oh, we all are. I, it's yeah. I think that's pretty miraculous. Cause it very could have very much gone a different way and I think it's really, it's so heartbreaking when people aren't given the chance to find that part of themselves.
August: Yeah. And there are so many who don't and I remind myself how lucky I am to have the friends and have the family and support that I do have because there are so many trans people who have no support who are on the streets. Right? 2020 was the highest year on record for murdering trans people, specifically trans women of color. They are the highest risk population. There was a study done where it was stated that most trans black women will not live past the age of 35.
Claire: Most. Wow.
August: That is the age. So if you make it past there, it's like you have conquered something.
Claire: But somehow you've dodged the quote unquote you know the metaphorical bullets, because they're all things that are, or that are external. It's not, they have some, a genetic disease or something. This is violence against them.
August: Exactly. These are women who are so brave, who are just living their truth. And it makes people angry to the point that they decide to kill them. Yeah.
Claire: When it really doesn't affect them at all.
August: At all.
Claire: I would love to bring up Safe Trans Travel. Yeah. So can you tell us a little bit about that?
August: Absolutely. I myself have, after I started my transition top surgery, started taking testosterone. I started getting more negative attention on the transit here in Chicago. I've been spit at, I've been groped. I've been yelled at and that's just my experience.
August: My trans friends have experienced the same, have experienced worse, on public transit. It's just not, it's not safe. In December I had a very close friend of mine who was assaulted on the train. They ended up getting a hold of me shortly after, they were just a mess. They were not doing okay.
And just talking to me, I talked to them through it and they are one of the kindest, brightest human beings I have ever met. And knowing that someone hurt them to the point that they could barely speak, it, it broke me. And so I, that day decided to start Safe Trans Travel which is a fund that supplies safe rides to any trans human who does not feel safe taking public transit. Right now, because of the pandemic, it's pretty strictly I buy them Lyft cards, so they can have a private car, so they don't have to take the train. My, my goal with it eventually is to create almost a phone tree of sorts with. People will be available to give rides to anybody who's not feeling safe. But again, what to get on the other side of this pandemic before that's possible.
But basically I get donations from whoever is willing. I put them in a shared fund and, folks just get ahold of me and say, Hey I need a Lyft card. I need money for an Uber. I need this. And I, no questions asked. They are a trans person, non binary, transgender, nonconforming. They get the funds that they need.
Luckily I've gotten enough funds where I've started to be able to donate towards gender-affirming surgeries. Towards housing. A lot of them are dealing with housing insecurity, not being able to pay rent, being able to maintain the vehicles that they do have.
So I have been able to donate to that. I was even able to donate. Somebody had a, an interview coming up and they had no clothes that fit them anymore because they had started to transition. So I was able to, send a hundred dollars their way so they could get a couple of shirts for the audition or for their interview. But yeah, so primarily giving to people for transit, but also opening it up to multiple things.
Claire: How does it feel when you get those emails or however they contact you? How does that feel?
August: Yeah it's, you know, I made it very clear. Like you do not have to explain anything to me. No question. I'm not going to ask you anything. Just let me know that you need this, so many of them are just so open about their experiences and most of the people approaching me for the rides are trans women of color. One in particular, she works until 11 o'clock at night. And so she was being harassed quite a bit on public transit cause she was getting on pretty late at night.
And so anytime her card runs out, I've told her, you let me know, we will fill that card. And so she's come back 10, 11, 12 times. And that's another thing is, a lot of these organizations are like one and done and with Safe Trans Travel, I don't want to put a cap on it. If you need help, I'm going to help.
And it hurts my heart that any human being is going through what these people are going through, but I'm really, I'm happy to be able to do something, however small it might be.
Claire: And how would someone get in touch with you if they...
August: Yeah, so right now I'm on Facebook and Instagram, in the process of setting up a website, but as many things in the LGBTQ community: word of mouth, we're letting people know I'm in contact with different organizations to let them know if they have, if you have any need, let me know. But the word of mouth has been huge for this. People are sharing it. People know it exists.
Claire: Yeah. Yeah. Great. So I will, so we're officially letting people know that this thing, if you need help, please contact me, contact whoever.
August: And we will, and it is entirely donation-based.
Claire: Yeah. Speaking of donation. So how would someone donate?
August: All of that information is also on Instagram, our page Safe Trans Travel. But right now through Venmo: Safe Trans Travel. Cash app, again: Safe Trans Travel. Kept it simple.
Claire: Perfect. Perfect. I'll try. I don't know what the website will look like for this, but I'm going to try to, I'll try to link to those as well if I can. Yeah. Of course. So just going to switch gears a little, because
August: You got heavy, fast.
Claire: I know! Which is wonderful because it has to be said, people need to know about this, both sides of it, that it's a problem and that you're trying to help. But I, but I also want to talk about acting as and what your experience has been in whatever points in your life and in your identity you would like to share with us. Cause I can only imagine. And I even I even screenshot it, the Facebook posts that you wrote that like totally was like, I must talk to August!
August: Which one was it? I'm so curious.
Claire: I'll just, hold on. I'll bring it up for you. I will read the whole thing because there's not one part of it that I don't think is important. On March 7th, you wrote, "I'm prepping for an audition for a trans, non-binary character. I've auditioned for numerous - all-caps - NUMEROUS trans characters over the years. In my experience when theaters, television and film asked for trans and/or non-binary actors, what they're actually looking for is either a binary trans person who has not started the process of transitioning, or they're looking for a binary trans person who is fully transitioned and completely passes. And often these trans characters are simply there just to be trans. Like, it's their entire personality." And just a side note as a plus sized actor that, clearly it's, there's, there's different compare, you can't compare all of it because there's a lot of difference, but that's a very similar story that we have is that it's all about their body and the weight.
So I'm going to keep reading it, hold on because it's wonderful. "So the strictly non-binary characters have been even more disheartening. There seems to be a massive misunderstanding of what it means to be nonbinary. Most of the non-binary characters I've personally auditioned for were clearly written for a flamboyant cis-character. Non-binary is added as an afterthought. I'm not even kidding. I received an audition side once where in the character description, the word nonbinary was clearly inserted over another word. They couldn't even be bothered to rewrite the description."
It was like not the same font, a different color box just put over that said non binary. And I was like, what did that say before?
Claire: Yeah! What did it say? And what did it mean to them to cross it off and putting on buying it?
August: Really in my brain, it was like, you know what? We need to be hip with the times let's make this character non-binary. Let's slap that over it, but not actually put any of the effort in.
Claire: Probably not even really a clearly not understand what non-binary can mean and does mean. Yeah. All right, I'm going to keep going and feel free to interject it. Yeah. You can comment on your own brain. "These auditions start to wear on you." Understandably. "They start to make you question the validity of your gender and that's bullshit." And that really hit me just as a person, just as a community.
August: Can I say too, is the reason that is so hard for me is because when I was coming to terms with my non-binary identity, it was the same as choosing the name. I couldn't say it out loud. I couldn't say that I was non-binary because, growing up, we were put into very strict categories, male, female, black, white, this, that.
And so even being able to admit that I was non-binary in my brain, that convinced me like, am I even a human being? And so it took me so much work. To accept that identity because of the years and years of categorizing being put on top of me that to then not even be able to play myself, to not be able to be a true non-binary character, to have society, film, television theater, say, it's not real like that frame. That's bullshit. Like it made me again, start to question the validity of me.
Claire: And you'd already been through this. You've already done that work and--
August: Don't make me go through that again.
Claire: And how dare they? And that's the thing they don't even know. They, it's just it's such an unconscious thing, but also incredibly disrespectful. That's huge, to question the validity of that.
August: And we're not seeing it in television and film. We're starting to see glimpses of it. But when you don't see yourself represented again, that's telling the audience, that's telling the kids watching you're not valid because you do not exist in this world.
Claire: Sure. And we're not going to make something that you can relate to or someone that you can relate to because it's not worth, it's not worth it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Similarly I struggle with the word fat and I know a lot of people are embracing it and neutralizing it and positivising it. And I think that's amazing. I am not quite there yet. There's still so much shame and judgment in that word because, my entire life that's a shameful thing to be. Not only in life, but in, in what we see. Any fat plus size, curvy, bodacious, whatever you want to call it, person has to be the butt of jokes or has to go through some crazy weight loss journey to be a good person or is clearly just not a romantic, sexual person.
August: You're that funny sidekick.
Claire: Yeah, exactly. And it makes you feel like, oh, so I guess I'm not entitled to that stuff in real life.
August: Yeah. It teaches you. You are not worthy of love. You are not worthy of being the main character, even in your own story. We've gone through years and years of society telling us this. So it's, it takes time to I still struggle with my identity and reminding myself, you are valid. You are real because. Everything is telling us otherwise.
Claire: Yeah. And it's I know that there's like a metaphor, of like a lonely reed, like getting up in the middle and the river's going one way and the read is trying to like, but it does feel like that where you're just trying not to listen to the roar and the noise of what people think is normal or have thought as normal and just go, but I'm here and I'm valid, whatever I am. Yeah. I'm going to keep reading. This is so great. I was like, you've given me fodder.
Okay. "So as actors, we're often asked to audition for characters that are different from ourselves. We auditioned for doctors, scientists, wizards, and more, but can you imagine never, ever being able to play your own gender, never even getting to relate to your character on that most basic level. It's no wonder the world is struggling with accepting the range of beautiful non-binary humans in this world. No one is seeing them on their screens." There it is. And then you talk about this - I'm sorry, I have to read the whole thing. No, I'm not sorry. You wrote it. And it's wonderful. "This audition I'm prepping for is the second time in years. The second time in years, I have auditioned for a character that accurately reflected my journey. That depicts where I am now, not where I was, not where I may be going, but where I am right now with this audition, I get to just focus on the work." Holy shit.
August: That's huge.
Claire: "Not worrying about whether or not I'm trans enough" - oh my God - "or worried that I'm too trans. I hate that. I've even had to think that, but that's where the industry has forced my brain." Mother --
August: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Claire: I wish people would understand. That their actions force us to doubt these things and feel like you're not enough.
August: It, it speaks to so much, to walk through your day and, for me, to be so focused on how I present and worrying about this or that. I don't get to focus on the work, cause I'm so focused on the other stuff, right? It's the same. As, someone who is working their way through college has seven different jobs to survive. They are not able to give their work the same amount of attention as that person who maybe their family paid for college, they don't have to have a job at the same time. It's similar to that. If you have to focus so hard on everything else, you don't get to give a hundred percent to that one thing that you want to give your focus to.
Claire: I'm curious when you get, of those two breakdowns and two characters that you've gotten in years, that actually felt like it represented your journey. How was it presented, in the sense of like the character breakdown, or in the sense of this is how trans we want it to be, or trans presenting this way, trans presenting that way, do you know what or non-binary but this is the way we want it to look like, how was it presented?
August: The one that I'm talking about in that post is for an independent film and the breakdown for the character was, it was just beautiful. Like the person who wrote it just, first: treated the person as a human being, that before anything else, it was like, they're likable, they're kind, they're all of these things, which I hadn't seen put next to any trans character before. But also, pronouns: they/them/theirs. Non-binary, check. But also on testosterone. I was like, "Fantastic!"
Here's the thing. For me, I identify as trans, non binary. My pronouns are they/them/theirs. I have also had top surgery, and I'm on hormones. I'm on testosterone. People see the combination of testosterone and top surgery, and they tell me - I've been told by so many people, even trans people - that I'm a trans man. And that's how they see me. And it's so funny. It's so frustrating. I'm like, no, I did a play before everything's shut down. I was in San Diego doing a play and I was working with a trans playwright. And he's lovely. Wonderful. But even he was like, so do you think you're gonna, come out as a trans man eventually? And I was like, no, maybe, but no.
Claire: Not as long as I'm me.
August: Even trans people sometimes have a hard time seeing that. So seeing a trans non-binary character, uses they/them pronouns, but also who is on testosterone and was so wonderful, like my heart was full. I at first I was like, is this a trick?
Claire: Did I write this in the middle of the night and send it to myself?
August: Right. But it was. I immediately text my friend because a, all trans people go in for the same roles. We'll talk about that. No matter what we look like, no matter where we are in our journey, we are always going for the same role. We always joke, in the Chicago theater community, the trans Chicago theater community, that it's a family reunion. We love getting to see each other, but we are not right for the same characters, but they seem to think so.
Claire: No. And that says a lot about what is being offered.
August: Exactly. But I immediately text my friend cause I knew that he would've gotten the same breakdown. And we just like we fan-girled over it.
Claire: That's amazing.
August: So also know if anybody's listening to this, we're all talking about what you sent us. Cuz we know. And we know you're sending it to all of us.
Claire: Exactly. We're a unified front. Okay. I don't know if I already read this, but I'm going to read it again anyway. "Trans does not look one way. Non-binary does not look one way. The industry is so keen on only showing the extreme ends - yep - of this ever-evolving spectrum." It is a spectrum for God's sake. "Something I often remind the students I work with is you can't know something you've never learned," as you just said. "If we aren't including all genres of trans, gender non-conforming and non-binary in our media, how is anyone going to learn? Listen, research learn, expand." And then you have a little asterisk at the bottom saying, "The things I've shared have been my personal experiences when it comes to TGMC characters. For some solid trans and non-binary representation, I highly recommend checking out Work in Progress."
I know we were supposed to talk about your acting stuff, but can we just talk about Work in Progress? I like, that is what -
August: Have you seen it?
Claire: Have I seen it?
August: I assumed.
Claire: I didn't know! I didn't know what I was - I actually, I had an audition for it for Season Two. Tiny role, but I was so happy cause I had heard about it, but I had no idea the extent and the depths...
August: Can I tell you the audition process for Season One?
Claire: Please!
August: Okay. So. They held an open call basically in, in Chicago for trans actors. So again, got into the room, trans family reunion, but it was different. This was different. So the casting agent came out and and this was Paskal Rudnicke, which is just a frigging great place.
And so the casting agent came out and was basically like, "Okay, Abby's in the room," Abby, the main character creator/writer of Work in Progress. "Abby's in the room, and so is - oh my gosh, I can't even believe I'm blanking on her name - Wachowski.
Claire: Oh yes! Li-, Lee-, Li, Lilly! LILLY!
August: Lilly Wachowski! Lilly Wachowski is in the room. And I went, "WHAT???" because Lilly Wachowski - Wachowski Sisters, Matrix, Found, everything you've ever cared about, right? - is in the room, and I'm panicked. They gave us a side in advance, so I'm like, oh, okay great. And they're like, but here's the deal. They don't even care about the side. You're going to go in the room. They're probably going to hug you. You're going to sit there and they're just going to get to know you. And I was like, okay. I'm not kidding. I walk in the room. Abby comes up. Bright face, eyes, wraps me in a giant hug. Lilly Wachowski, giant woman, wrapped me in the safest, warmest, happiest hug I've ever experienced in my life.
I sit there and for seven minutes we just talk. They want to get to know me as a human being. And they're just interviewing trans people to say, we want to create a character around you. We want to see how you fit into this world. The whole point of what they were doing is, we want to fill this world with trans people, right?
The entire spectrum, right? This cab driver, it's going to just be a trans cab driver, right? We're not going to talk about it, but they're all going to exist in this world. And watching that show and seeing my friends on that show, I'm seeing the spectrum in a way that I've never seen before on, on television. And that was their goal and they did it and they wanted to, they wanted the people behind the camera. They just wanted people, much like this podcast, talking and including people who just aren't normally given an opportunity. We want that trans camera operator because no one's ever offered them a chance before. That's what they wanted to do. So it was literally just talking to them and having a conversation. And then at the last two minutes we read the side, maybe. So it's just me talking to Abby. It was great. But it was one of the most beautiful audition experiences of my life. Yeah. It was wonderful.
Claire: That is amazing. It's amazing.
August: Yeah. Yeah.
Claire: That's really just amazing.
August: Yeah, it was to have that moment also, like when you have such a beautiful moment like that, you're just reminded of what's lacking. I've never had that experience before. And the fact that they're like, this show is going to exist because no show like this exists for us.
Claire: Yeah. And this, yeah, it isn't just about, while this moment is beautiful and we're having these beautiful moments for every individual trans actor that's coming in, this isn't where it ends. It's not okay, time's up, we're done.
August: Yeah.
Claire: Its mission is to start there and keep going and create a show. And that's beautiful. That is so beautiful.
August: It was wonderful.
Claire: So how do you feel that they adequately or respectfully represented trans identity, and non-binary?
August: I think, I know a lot of the actors on the show, they're my personal friends. And so I, I know that even though this character presents as a cis man, I know that person is trans non binary. One character in particular, and I think this is lost on almost everybody who watches it. My good friend Sarah Wisterman plays the daughter of weird Al Yankovic and Julia Sweeney. Plays their daughter. Sarah is trans non-binary. Sarah uses they/them pronouns. And Sarah and I have a conversation every so often because they just do not feel represented. They present in a very feminine way, in a lot of the things they do. So people see Sarah and they perceive them as being a cis woman. And they're not.
Claire: Yeah.
August: And so watching that show, I was like, this is a trans non binary person in a role, and nobody knows. And it's great. So there were a lot of moments like that on the show where I was like, they're just casting trans non binary, gender non-conforming people left and right. And the untrained eye or someone who doesn't think to look at these identities is just seeing cis people.
Claire: Yeah.
August: I also loved Theo Germaine who plays the love interest of Abby - that whole storyline, Abby making mistakes. And, it started a conversation about dead names. It started a conversation about things that people just don't know about. And that's why I post as much as I do about my experience. I posted something about my dead name once. And somebody reached out to my partner Landry and said, I didn't know what a dead name was. So they're just people who don't know. And that's why shows like Work in Progress are so important because they're starting a conversation that people aren't having.
Claire: Oh, hell yeah.
August: Yeah.
Claire: Let's go back to where were you born?
August: I was born in Iowa. I grew up in a town called Tiffin - T I F F I N - no one knows where it is. So I usually say Iowa city. Some people still don't know where that is. The University of Iowa, the big university there. I was born at the University of Iowa Hospital and Clinic.
Claire: And how, where did the acting bug bite?
August: Ya know? This is a conversation I have with my partner frequently. Growing up not knowing who you are, you try a lot of things and you try to see what sticks and nothing really does. Cause I keep, I kept trying to find myself in activities, as opposed to, like, knowing who I was, which I was never going to find out in Iowa. There were no trans people. There were, but I didn't know. And eventually, in high school I did everything, right. I was in choir. I was in band. I was in theater. I was in softball. Art club, student council, you name it. I was in it. And theater and choir, I just was really good at, and smart little confused trans me was like, I can hide myself in here.
And I'm not kidding when I tell you, I don't know if I actually found joy in theater for a long time. I used it as a way to hide myself cause I was really good at it. So I would get a character and I would lose myself in it. And it, it became a way of not having to sit with myself. If I got to be somebody else, then I got to focus on that person and not me. And I, I did, I was the lead in school musicals. The narrator in Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dream Coat. I went to, then I went to community college started out as a music major. But quickly started getting cast as leads in the plays and the musicals.
I loved playing like the big character roles. I think my favorite was. Ms. Adelaide in Guys and Dolls. I just, I loved - that was so much fun. And putting those dresses on, like putting dresses on it didn't feel like anything to me. I was acting, I was putting a character on and part of that character was this flamboyant gown.
And then I would, on the flip side, I'd be in the plays and be playing these really dark and twisty leading women. And I was like, YES! But again, I was losing myself in this, when I wasn't doing that, I was drinking heavily and making terrible choices with my body because I didn't care. So after that I went to Minnesota State University, Mankato which is a mouthful. It's Southern Minnesota, where we did 20 shows a year.
Claire: Wow.
August: 20 shows a year, a couple of those where the dance concerts, then we had our own professional summer stock. But even when I was there, again, I didn't have time to, to be myself, because we were doing show after show. And again, I was just losing myself in those characters and it, it, there were several times where, I'd stop and say, am I doing this because I like this, or am I doing this because I'm good at this.
And for most of my life, it was because I'm good at this. And it wasn't until I moved to Chicago and found some success. But I don't think I really found the joy and the love of it until after I came out. Because for all of those years of acting, I wasn't myself. So I was always covering something up putting on that other character.
So I didn't just get to sit and focus on the work and focus on the character. Because I had so much going on inside that I couldn't dedicate my whole self to it. And so it wasn't until after I, I started transitioning, that weight was lifted. And all of a sudden I was like, I can really focus on this now.
Like I can find the joy I can, cause when you're pushing so much down and avoiding so much, you can only give so much attention to the thing you're trying to give attention to. So it wasn't until I came out and started going to therapy and sitting with myself, that was when I was able to give my full self and find the joy in what I was doing.
Claire: Wow.
August: I know I was like, where I started was technically in like middle school, but...
Claire: Yeah. But I get it. That makes perfect. That makes a lot of sense. I think, I'm sure you're not the first person to do that.
August: I just wish we'd talk about it more.
Claire: Exactly. Okay, so you touched on this, but I really liked you to try to, I don't know, elaborate, on the difference between your acting then where you were hiding and using it as a vehicle to escape yourself, and now that you are truly yourself. How is it different?
August: I, that's a great question. It's just different when you care about yourself.
Claire: I can imagine.
August: I, because I, now I like myself. I'm happy with who I am. I'm happy with the journey I'm on. That means I'm taking better care of myself, whether that be exercising, whether that be, eating not, I don't really drink anymore. And so I'm able to give my full self to what I'm doing where before it was like, ah, I'll figure this out and I'll do it. And it'll be great. Cause I'm always great. It's fine. Where now I'm taking the time. I'm putting that extra work into the pieces I'm doing. Before I was completely taking every part of myself out of every character.
Whereas now I'm allowing myself to exist in these characters. So there's something more honest about the characters that I'm playing, even if I don't, even if they're a different gender than how I identify. I'm still putting a piece of myself in there because I care about myself and I'm more comfortable allowing myself to show. I think that's the biggest difference is allowing myself into these characters, whereas before the characters were taking over who I was.
Claire: Yeah.
August: If that makes sense.
Claire: Yeah, it does. It very much does. What a wonderful place to be. Jeez.
August: Yeah.
Claire: Have you had any kind of different responses or reactions, or feedback? I don't even want to say that word. But just yeah, like responses. I don't want to say necessarily between then and now. "Former you" and "Now you" - how have people, like, how have people been as accepting and as respectful as they can be?
Yes. I think I have been very lucky. My journey as a trans actor has been very different from other people as trans actors. When I came out, I came out in the process of doing a production I was doing. I had just come out as using they/them pronouns. And I auditioned for Girl in the Red Corner with Broken Nose.
Claire: Yeah.
August: And I remember one of the questions that was asked, or maybe I can't remember whether they, I don't think they asked, I might've offered it up saying the character I auditioned for was in the script was a woman. And I think I wrote on the form I'm willing to play this as a woman. But I went in for the audition and it went really well. And the director ended up reaching out to the playwright and saying we had this actor come in for the role of Gina. They were really good.
They said that they're willing to play Gina as a woman, but how would you feel about making Gina trans non binary. It would only require some pronoun changes. And the playwright was very receptive to that and was like, do it. Right? If you want to cast this person, have them play this character as themselves. And I, I was so grateful for that and what was cool, it only took minor alterations to the pronouns. And I think there was just one, one moment in the script that was added, where somebody screwed up the pronouns and someone else corrected them. But that's all it was. And so in that moment I was anticipating playing a woman.
They then gave me this gift of getting to play the character as myself. And so this was my first show after coming out. And before we opened is when I chose the name August. And the show was a huge success. We had so many members of the LGBT community, specifically trans people, who ended up coming to the show to see someone who was trans in a main role.
And then the playwright came and, saw how successful and positive the reaction was to the portrayal of my character. He ended up making the decision to forever alter Gina in the script as being non-binary. So that is now permanently in the script for when it is forever done. And I ended up getting nominated for a Jeff award for it and I ended up, yeah, I ended up winning.
Claire: Congratulations!
August: Thank you, yeah. It was such an important moment. Awards are dumb. It's - awarding art is so confusing. And --
Claire: Yeah.
August: But for me to have just come out and to have that character be received in such a way, it gave me the permission to continue to be myself, and luckily, because of how everything turned out, like my, I blew up in a way, I ended up getting more auditions from bigger houses. I ended up, right after that booking with Victory Gardens, Timeline, and it just went up from there. And as, as myself and that told me you are on the right path. You keep being you, and people are gonna see that and it's going to resonate with them.
And that also told me you're doing your best work now. Because you're yourself and people are seeing that. Whereas before I was a little bit hidden here, it was just me, it was neat out there and it was resonating with people. I think the biggest thing for me was having those trans people in the audience being like, I've never seen myself before on stage and I got to see myself and that's the biggest thing for me is, people getting to see themselves for the first time onstage, which doesn't happen very often.
Claire: No.
August: Especially with non-binary characters. And I think I hear it most, like when people see pictures of me. If you want to say before and now they just, they sense just more just happiness, joy. There's a light that wasn't there before.
Claire: Pride?
August: Yeah, absolutely. Like there it is there, it was not there before. And it's, you can't hide that. That's something that shines through whether you want it to or not. And to see it resonate so well with people has been wonderful.
Claire: I'm reading a book called The Body is Not an Apology, by Sonya Renee Taylor, who is just incredible. And her whole thing is teaching the power of radical self-love. Not just self-love, but radical self love. Like against all of everything, to really love yourself. And it's just --
August: And transitioning is a radical self, a radical act of self-love.
Claire: Yeah.
August: If you love yourself enough to go through that. Knowing full well, how the world sees you. When I talk about these trans women of color who are being assaulted, left and right. They are still choosing every day to leave their house presenting the way that they want to present, knowing full well what this world could do to them, but they love themselves too much to hide. That's huge.
Claire: That is. That is beautiful and terrifying.
August: Yeah. Yeah, it is.
Claire: And heartbreaking. My God. Sorry. I'm just processing. There's so much more to it than people just assuming, oh, they just want to dress up . I hope I, didn't offend by even saying that, but I feel like there are people that do think that's what it's all about. And it's no, it's exactly who you are and that's at the end of the day, all you have. And I'm just really in awe that, whenever anybody finds themself and loves themself and sheds all that excess shit. Yeah, I really, I love that and I love that you're able to speak about it and educate and advocate.
August: And that's a choice that I've made, that's something I've talked to my partner about, right? She often says, gosh, what does she say? That I have chosen the journey of being an educator or something like that, where I know a lot of trans people who just want to live their life. They don't want to have the conversations. And that's okay. They don't owe anybody anything.
Claire: Nope.
August: But I have made the choice in my life to be open and to talk about it because someone needs to, and I have enough spoons, as it were, I have enough spoons in my life. Then I can give up a few spoons. I can have these conversations.
Claire: Thank you.
August: Absolutely. Yeah. Not everyone wants to, and I think that's important too, for people to know is just because someone's trans doesn't mean they want to have a conversation with you about everything in their life.
Claire: It doesn't mean you're entitled to know about their journey.
August: And know that if someone is sitting down to talk to you, like that's a big deal. That person trusts you. If someone is not sharing information about their life, if they are not correcting you, when you screw up their pronouns, it's because they know that you are not worth their time.
Claire: Yeah.
August: That's the big thing, right? Pronouns. Everyone's like "pronouns". Number one, pronouns, getting someone's pronouns and their name, that's the bare minimum. That's the bare minimum. And it seems so often with the conversation around trans things, it's like "PRONOUNS" and I'm like, sure. Get them right. Yes. But that's the bare minimum. I think, if you're screwing up someone's pronouns and they're not correcting you, it's again, you're not worth their time. They don't think that you're ever going to get it.
Claire: And they'd rather not even be talking to you, so let them go. Yeah, man. So now that you're in this place and you're also newly engaged to your partner, so congratulations!
August: Thank you.
Claire: And I hope, I know that with COVID, there's always the like "will we be able to do it with people or without", but I wish you lots of happiness together. You're welcome. As August, now, if you could design the perfect role for you that you would love to play, or, if it's already been designed, that you think, what do you have any ideas? What they would be?
August: No matter how many times I'm asked that I'm always like, I don't know. I don't know. One of the things I always say is I'm an actor, let me play it all. Like I can do it all. I promise.
Claire: Yeah. Have you played a bad guy, or a bad girl?
August: That's what I was going to say. I would love to play the villain. So often I play that like dark and twisty person, but who's also - I played, the closest I ever got to what I would say is a villain, and I don't think she was a villain, was Mary Mallon - Typhoid Mary. I played her who, I think many people probably consider a villain, but I think not a villain.
Claire: Yeah.
August: That's the closest I've ever gotten to play a quote unquote "bad guy". But I would love to play a bad guy. Cause I think I have, what's funny is after I came out, I get so many like pleasant boy, next door, like sweet because I have these bright, these bright eyes. I play I cannot tell you, I keep getting called in for gay men.
Claire: Ooh.
August: I have been cast as so many gay men.
Claire: Really!
August: Yeah. And I don't, there's something there that I have yet to unpack, but. Like they're being inclusive, but also it's you've got that potential feminine swagger to you. And I'm like, I don't know what that means, but sure.
Claire: Yeah. Exactly.
August: But I would love to play a villain. I would love to play Kate McKinnon's character on Ghostbusters. Yeah. That's the dream for me? That, just that nerdy weird. I just want to be weird. I wanna be weird. I also, I just played Hamlet in Ten Minute Hamlet.
Claire: Ooh.
August: And it made me go, hmmm, trans Hamlet would be really interesting. Because then I started thinking of that to be, or not to be speech and I'm like life or death, or to transition or not to transition, to live my life as a lie or to come out and risk it all. Would be so fun.
Claire: Oh my God! That would be amazing.
August: Yeah. I just, right before I got on this call, I was recording some sonnets for a different project. So my brain is like on Shakespeare right now.
Claire: Ooh. But yeah, but of anything that's, we've seen it all. Let's, yeah. Let's do some something new.
August: That's the thing with Shakespeare, we've seen so many variations, in space, whatever...
Claire: Underwater!
August: Underwater! But we're still not seeing trans Shakespeare characters, and they're there. They're there. You just gotta try.
Claire: Oh my gosh. We've identified the issues with the world and with media, entertainment, casting, yeah --
August: I'll share one thing that people never think about with trans actors. Specifically things I've gone through: bathrooms in a rehearsal space. Bathrooms in a rehearsal space is something people don't frequently think about. A lot of Chicago theaters for some reason are in churches. And I had an experience at Timeline Theater, phenomenal theater company, doing good work. I was doing Rutherford and Son there in December of, pre-COVID. What are years anymore? I was like last December. No, it wasn't.
Claire: 2012? I don't even know anymore.
August: Who knows. But we have a, there's a rehearsal bathroom upstairs and it kept breaking. So downstairs, there is a men's restroom, there's a women's restroom, and there is an individual stall. And we would get short breaks and we would all go to the bathroom. I'd run downstairs to the individual stall. Always locked, for some reason. I would then have to run back upstairs. Ask for a key. Stage manager, didn't have a key, so I'd have to run back down. I'm usually more comfortable using the women's restroom. So I would wait until the Sunday church ladies were gone, so as not to startle them. And by that time my break was over.
Claire: And you had to pee.
August: And I had to pee. And so I think that's something that people don't often think about is the bathroom.
Claire: Such a simple...
August: Such a simple thing. But when I, especially in these again I'm comfortable using the women's restroom, but especially if it's a smaller bathroom and that's connected to a larger community, like a church, it's not always comfortable. And then I, and then I start overthinking and I'm like I'm going to have to use the bathroom. So I need to shave my face. Cause I'll get a little bit of stubble.
Claire: Yeah.
August: And so these are the things we think about is, I need to shave this day so that, if I go to the bathroom, I won't have any stubble showing. But then, at that point, I'm starting to shave almost every day and my skin is getting irritated, just because I'm so worried about making other people uncomfortable. The, these are the little things that we go through.
Claire: Yeah. What, in, in that scenario, what would you, what should they do?
August: The stage manager needed to make sure that individual stall was unlocked.
Claire: Right. To that point maybe they should have more individual stalls.
August: Yeah, exactly. And what's nice is a lot of the theater spaces are making all bathrooms gender neutral, which can make older patrons a little uncomfortable.
Claire: But Steppenwolf gets away with it.
August: Cuz it's Steppenwolf.
Claire: I like and I don't like this question, but I like some of the responses I get from it. And it's a little bit about, it's similar to the, what would be your dream role thing. But where do you see yourself in - it sounds like an interview, like a job, right? - Where do you see yourself in five years.
August: Oh boy. I was looking at the questions beforehand and I was like, I still don't have the answer to this. I wanna still be doing what I'm doing. I respect myself and I see the journey I'm on. And even on the journey I've been on, I have stopped, there was a point in my career where I was like, okay, no more shows that don't pay. And then I got to the point where I was like, okay, no more shows that pay me less than this amount. And then I got to the point, I think a year or two ago where I said, I'm not going to do any more roles that don't really resonate with me. That don't allow me to show something important to an audience. And I want to keep climbing the ladder that I'm currently climbing. I want to be doing more voiceover. I love cartoons. I love silly voices. If I could just sit in my closet and talk, that'd be great. I'm a writer, I love to write. I would love to, I was really into writing when I first moved to Chicago.
And then as my acting career picked up, I had to set that down. I'd love to do more of that because I think there's a voice that's lacking in the theater, and I have that voice and I would like to do more of that. I don't know what I even see, see myself physically. I love Chicago. I do. I love Chicago. LA doesn't scream to me. New York doesn't scream to me. I think Chicago is we still have our problems here, but we're so far beyond these other big cities when it comes to people like us maybe.
Claire: Yeah. And having the conversations.
August: We're having the conversations in Chicago.
Claire: And starting to, and really holding ourselves accountable.
August: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, in, in five years I want to strictly be doing entertainment, performance. I want that to be my full-time and it has been I actually, I, before COVID I was like, great, this is it. I'm quitting my safe job. I went to San Diego. I booked two shows out in San Diego. I was like, fantastic. COVID hit. And I thought, oh my God, what have I done? But luckily I have I've only been performing.
Claire: That's amazing.
August: One of my, one of my jobs is is I work for a children's theater and we do a lot of virtual performances of shows. Which are specifically, we talk about consent with kids. We talk about bullying.
Claire: Ooh, that's great.
August: Those types of things.
Claire: Which children's theater is that?
August: It's called Imagination Theater. So basically, yeah, we just, we do shows one of our biggest shows is called No Secrets, and it is about sexual assault, consent. Basically teaching kids about their rights to their bodies, and the fact that they can say no to anything. Yeah. And right now to one of our big shows is Mental Health Matters, because a lot of kids are dealing with some stuff right now being stuck at home. And yeah. And so we're, we're talking to kids about their mental health, because kids don't get to talk about that very often.
Claire: And they don't know how to talk about it.
August: Exactly. And that's one of the things I talk about with them is, this is something you don't talk about. This is something grownups don't talk about. That's why we're talking about it right now. I would love to do more of that going forward. I want to start, I want to put myself out there more as a trans educator, and I'm not sure what that looks like right now. I, that is in the coming years of a journey I would like to follow. You want to talk to your kids about, what it means to be trans, here we go.
Claire: Yeah. Oh that's amazing. I think this is going to be my last question, cuz look at we're doing so amazing, amazing on time. I just wanted to go back a little bit to to, to being an actor and a trans non-binary actor. What kind of, what how were - ooh...
August: We've been talking for awhile...
Claire: So how, yes. How was how did you talk with your agents about that? What have they been supportive? Have they been yeah, cause I mean that they're part of your team and they clearly auditions are channeled through them. So what kind of conversations did you have to have with them?
August: Okay. I was signed to my first agency right when I was coming out. Okay. And they did not understand it as much as - it was, they didn't know how to market me. I think I was very confusing to them. Theater was one thing. The person in charge of theater was wonderful. Got me. And what was, I ended up getting most of the theater jobs myself, and they were just a go-between. I, at that point had made a pretty good name for myself. And even the website was was a bit of a mess. Like when I first came to them, it was male and female. And I was like where are you gonna put me?
So I forced them to change. I didn't force them, but I caused them to have to change their website. And then, the film and television department, and even voiceover department, just didn't know what to do with me. I remember I showed up one day to pick up a contract for a show I was doing. And the woman who handed me, the contract looked at me very confused and was like oh here you go. And I was like, thank you. And then I left and she sent me an email later going, you didn't look like what I thought you looked like. And I went, oh, this makes sense. Cause you have been giving me no auditions, or the ones you have been sending me on have been so wrong for me.
Claire: Oh.
August: And so I, I was like, this makes sense. And because of that and because I just didn't feel like they were bumping me up to the next level, I ended up choosing not to resign with them. And I ended up signing with Gray very quickly during the pandemic. Gray Talent is so good with their transactors. They are respectful. They get it. They fight for us. Like, I'll even, one of my agents will send me certain sides and be like, August, if you are not comfortable with this breakdown, we don't have to do it. We can pass on it. So they're always very open to having conversations. But Gray is known for being really good with their trans talent. Gray does really phenomenal work, but they can only do as good of work as what, the film and television and theater are giving them to give to us. But within that, they're so good. So I went into Gray already being who's before you today and they got it and they were excited to have me. I feel very welcomed there and I get, they're sending me auditions like crazy. Yeah, they're good. They're good.
Claire: That's great. That's great. Yeah. And you didn't have to, as part of signing with them or your audition or anything, there was there like a conversation about what you were looking for, and what, and how to market you.
August: Yeah. And that's what's great about them is they'll reach out every so often to everybody and be like, what are you comfortable with? What are you looking for? Gray is very good that if you go to them and you say, I, I don't want to play this. They're going to be like, okay.
I, one of my friends who's also signed with them started with them as a non-binary identity, has since realized that they identify as a trans man. And is starting that conversation with them about what they're comfortable playing now versus then. And Gray is so cool and respectful of that. It would be like, a cis person wouldn't go, I don't want to play this - a cis woman, wouldn't have to say, I don't want to play a man. You know, the agency would be like, obviously because that's not who you are. We feel very safe as trans performers and say, I'm not comfortable playing this, and Gray says "great". Because that's not who you are. That's fine.
Claire: Oh man. Yeah. That's awesome.
August: Yeah. I feel very lucky.
Claire: Big time.
August: Yeah.
Claire: Yeah. Wow. Good to know. Is there anything else you are burning to talk about, or you feel like has not been heard yet? And that's important to you?
August: Yeah. Yeah, I'll leave it with this. I am not a monolith for trans people. We are not one size fits all, as much as they, they try to act like we are. As I had mentioned previously in this like, our family reunions, I will often get called in and I will see some, very femme, trans feminine people called in for the same role because they put us in the same box together.
And we are not that I do not carry this - just because I'm trans and a black trans woman is trans, we don't carry the same baggage. We are different people. I think the world needs to start seeing us as people first, I think right now we're just seen as trans and that is, really interesting to people, but I think that's also, what's getting so many of us killed, is because we're not being seen as people.
And I think that's the biggest thing is, we're not transitioning because it's cute. We're not transitioning because it's fun. We're transitioning cause we might not make it if we don't and I, and so many people see that as a threat and we're just trying to live our lives. So I guess, yeah, those are the two big things, is: we're individuals first. And our transition has nothing to do with you.
Claire: Yeah. And you're not doing it to get attention or any of the other things .
August: I'm doing it so I can wake up in the morning, that's it.
Claire: Why put yourself through something so major?
August: It's traumatic to go through. Let me, I know we're almost finishing, but like to transition, you gotta jump through so many hoops. The number of, like, doctors I had to. Papers. I had to have signed saying that I was of sound mind to be able to even get top surgery. And you think of all these other procedures, plastic surgery procedures, where people don't need anybody to sign off on anything, and they're massive procedures. But I have to have at least two doctors say that I'm not crazy so that I can have top surgery.
And it's the same with hormones. You have to see doctors, you have to get so much work done in order to just be put on hormones. Like, we don't just choose this overnight. It is a journey. We would not choose this if we didn't have to, because it is a headache and it is expensive.
Claire: Oh yeah.
August: It is expensive. Yeah.
Claire: And to get those doctors to sign off on you did, was it. What kind of conversations did you have to have with them? Was it, really invasive? Or -
August: Yeah, and I was very lucky where my therapist provided the letters, but she even apologized in advance. She was like, I have to ask you some of these questions. And there are questions is anybody forcing you to do this?
Claire: Is that a thing?
August: Apparently. Right? Like we have to make sure that no one is making you transition, questions about your state of mind. Have you thought of killing yourself? All of these questions, that make you go into these dark places. And you're like, I just want to feel human.
Claire: And also to like to answer a question like, have you thought about killing yourself? To me, if, if I were in that position, I would be like what do they want to hear?
August: I know, what's the right answer?
Claire: Because clearly I have, and that's why I'm here so that I don't feel like that anymore. But if I say that I have, does that make me, does that disqualify me from, you know ... my God.
August: Like, just tell me the right, tell me the right answers. And it's the same, every step of the process, they have to ask you a bunch of invasive questions. Even going, once I got enough paperwork saying I was approved, approved to go see the top surgeon, but then the top surgeon has to ask you if anybody's forcing you to do this, or are you of sound mind, do you understand? And I'm like, yes, I do. And I'm like, nobody else has to go through this to just be themselves. I think that's a big takeaway is, how hard the process is. I haven't even started the name change process because it sounds so daunting to me, and that's expensive too.
Claire: Really?
August: Yeah. It all costs so much money. And that's part of Safe Trans Travel. I'm like, do you have something like covering surgery costs doing this? Because that's part the barrier too is these so many trans people are out of work. They don't have secure housing. They don't have reliable families because they're trans, so they can't afford these surgeries. So they're not, and I think that's part of the danger is these women aren't fully able to present the way that they want to, and that screams to the world that they are different. Because these procedures are so hard to get yeah. Ending on a positive.
Claire: No, but I really appreciate you taking on the role as educator in this. I would never want to assign that to anyone, but I really appreciate that you have embraced that role as much as you can. Because I, there's a lot that I did not know prior to this conversation and that really does help to see it more clearly.
August: And that's why I do it. Yeah, that's why I do it.
Claire: And see as much humanity in it as possible. Cause that's what it is at the end of the day. Yeah. You have been an absolute dream, honestly, this was like the easiest interview ever. Thank you for being so open and so honest and so enthusiastic about it. Cause I just really appreciate it. And I can't wait to share this.
August: Oh, good.
Claire: Today we have two calls to action. The first is Safe Trans Travel, which we mentioned in August's interview. And as a reminder, they provide financial support to transgender and gender non-conforming humans seeking safe transportation throughout the United States. Again, it's an issue that a lot of us would not think of if we weren't faced with it ourselves. The getting to, and from certain places as a transgender and/or gender nonconforming individual.
So please consider donating. You can Venmo at Safe-Trans-Travel. You can check them out on Instagram at "safetranstravel". Or you can get in touch with me at bigbonesthickskin@gmail.com, and I will put you in touch with August or with Safe Trans Travel themselves.
The second organization is Brave Space Alliance, and we have mentioned them in the past, but it's always good to mention them again because we don't think that they get enough attention. Brave Space Alliance is the first black led, trans led, LGBTQ+ center located on the south side of Chicago. They're dedicated to creating and providing affirming, culturally competent, for us by us resources, programming and services for LGBTQ+ individuals on the south and west sides of the city.
They strive to empower, embolden, and educate each other through mutual aid, knowledge sharing, and the creation of community-sourced resources as they build toward the liberation of all oppressed peoples. Their website is bravespacealliance.org. Thanks so much.
Thank you for joining us for this episode of Big Bones, Thick Skin. And thank you so much to August Forman, whose heart and humor were absolutely on fire in this interview. Thank you also to the lovely Eric Backus for his perfect music, Meredith Montgomery, who captured the heart and soul of BBTS in her artwork, and Amelia Driscoll with Summit Podcasting for her enthusiastic and tireless editing. Help us out and subscribe for more honest, thought-provoking, and occasionally funny conversations with me and my guests.
I'm Claire Alpern. And thanks for listening to Big Bones, Thick Skin.